Ep.51 Ditch the Drama Around Sales and Marketing!

Do you struggle when it comes to getting paid for what you do, or want to do in your business?  For the longest time this has been my struggle and I've been playing mind drama whack-a-mole to counter all the limiting beliefs and struggles around worthiness. 
I cannot wait to share my conversation with Jen from Becoming Iconic.  She's a sales and marketing expert who's been building her business over a decade.  She's a force to be reckoned with and I am a changed woman because of this.  Head to the show to hear Jen's powerful message.  You are worthy upon arrival. ❤️

Click here for full episode show notes.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:05

One of the things I've consistently struggled with as an entrepreneur is sales. When it comes to earning money for what I do outside of corporate, I've had this wall around money and worth that I have been working on for at least the last year. If that sounds like you, I can't wait for you to get in on this conversation with Jen from Becoming Iconic. Hey friend, welcome to the Perfection Not Required podcast, where we talk about building a sustainable online business from the inside out. I'm Jamie Renee, and today we're talking about what's going on inside when we're struggling with sales and marketing in our business. I can't wait to get into it. When I had this conversation with Jen from Becoming Iconic about sales and marketing and worthiness, things that I understood on the surface for a long time finally clicked into place. In fact, she did a little mini coaching session with me during our interview in early January that has shaped the direction of what I'm doing in my business today. I've saved that clip for another time because this episode is already my longest this year, but I just didn't want you guys to miss any of this. Okay, friend, let's get to it. All right, welcome to another episode of Perfection Not Required. Today I have Jen with Becoming Iconic. And Jen, welcome to the show. Oh, I'm so happy to be here, Jamie. Thank you so much for having me. Yes, it's awesome. Okay, Jen, I want you to tell everybody just kind of who you are and what you do. And then we've got some interesting, juicy topics to dive into around sales and marketing. And I'm excited to be able to share with everybody today what you are bringing. So let us know. Who are you, Jen? Yeah, who am I?

SPEAKER_02 1:57

It's like a very big question. I know. And there's so many layers and so many chapters to this story. But what I'll do is give you the Cole's notes. First and foremost, I'm a mom of four. So that's my most treasured title of all. There's nothing I could earn or gain aside from that fills me as much as that. So those four precious babies have been the reason I did entrepreneurship from the beginning. I started entrepreneurship 17, nearly 18 years ago, which I feel like ages me, but it but at the same time, I'm really proud of that because that does sort of create wisdom and experience and a lot of lessons learned along the way. And I started entrepreneurship because I had left my marketing career. I loved my job. I wasn't one of those people that was not happy with their corporate career. I loved my career. But when I had children, it felt very much like a choice. I had to choose to continue to go up that corporate ladder or be a mom fully. And this was 18 years ago when I had my first daughter. And so in that moment, I made the choice to choose her, which I will never regret. It was the right choice, but quickly lost myself in that transition. So going from getting dressed and putting on nice clothes and driving yourself to work and picking up a coffee on the way, and that little bit of independence completely dissipated when I decided to stay home as a mom. And I had my second child, my son, and just really found that I had lost vision. And although mom is my favorite title, there's more to me than just that.

SPEAKER_00 3:36

Right.

SPEAKER_02 3:37

And so I started to wonder around being a woman. I started wondering around being a mom. And I also started playing with capacity. I thought I don't buy into this narrative that we have to choose. And so this has really become what I teach is eradicating sacrificial living, that you actually can be exceptional in your home and exceptional in business, and that you don't have to choose. They actually get to be built together. And I've done that successfully for 18 years, not perfectly, hence the podcast. But I have definitely been wiser and more perspective has been generated as the years have gone by. And now, as a mom of four, there's a lot of balls in the air. I own three companies and four kids and a husband I love, and all my health. There's all these different components to me. But what wakes me up every day and what actually exhilarates me is the idea of like, how can I create more beauty and fulfillment today and fit all of these pieces together? And it's never about even numbers. So I'm not going to give each child 1.25 hours a day. So it's always equal and balanced. There's no such thing as that. Instead, it's presence. I lead my life with presence. How can I be present right now with you and give you all I've got? I'm not thinking about the things I need to do later today when I'm with my kids, putting my phone down and giving them my full attention and presence. And that to me is what leadership is. And that to me is one of my favorite things to teach and hold people accountable to.

SPEAKER_01 5:11

Yeah. Isn't that funny? Like, that's just like the simplest things that we need reminding of. I mean, just the reminder to be present in our conversations. It's just such a simple shift, but requires constant observance.

SPEAKER_02 5:27

It's true. And it's like a daily practice. I think we we feel like, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna get this and then I'm gonna be a master of it. But life is so full of surprise and delight. I mean, I think even with this podcast, I've had to reschedule because one of my kids are sick. And this is life. We're not gonna change those circumstances, but we can definitely lead them differently. We can definitely be give ourselves more grace. We can definitely be really excited about the fact that I work from home and I have been able to create what I've created from a business perspective, but I also am able to give my kids time and take them to their sports and remove the things in my day that have to be shifted if one of them is sick. I mean, this is the beauty of entrepreneurship and this is actual time freedom. I think people think time freedom means you go to the beach and you have nothing to do all day, but that's not contributing. That's not living a fulfilling life. That's rest and we all need moments of that, but I don't think that's the ultimate goal. I believe the ultimate goal is being able to design our lives exactly how we choose. That's time freedom. It's not that we don't have anything filling the time, it's that we choose how the time gets filled.

SPEAKER_01 6:40

Yeah. I heard somewhere that freedom was the ability to do whatever you want to do whenever you want to do it for as long as you want to do it. And that just speaks to me on so many levels. Because even though I'm happy in my corporate job, it's not like I'm truly in control of my schedule. That's an ultimate goal of freedom, time freedom, location freedom to where I can do and be wherever. And so that's really exciting. I know that one of the big things to get you to that spot, obviously, is sales, marketing, promoting yourself, which I have found as a stumbling block myself, but I've seen it a lot in other women, really taking on and understanding sales from a female perspective and how it's different for women than it is for men and kind of those nuances. So, do you want to get into that? I know this is something that you are passionate about.

SPEAKER_02 7:36

Yeah, I am. I really am. So, what comes up for me first, I think we need to like lay the foundation and set the stage for sales is this idea of worthiness. I think a lot of us have thought that we have to earn it. It's earned through so many customers in your business. It's earned through a title, it's earned through how much money you're making, that somehow that is what will create worthiness, where I'm here to tell you a worthy upon arrival. So worthiness is never earned. It was your birthright. And when we can realize that and sit with that and soak that in, then we come from this place of personal power. We come from this place of leadership. And instead of needing to prove ourselves to others, we let our example, the way we show up and the words we use and the way we greet people and meet people, that gets to be the proof and evidence, our example of leadership. I really believe in that. So when it comes to sales, it has such a bad connotation to it. And I don't, I well, I guess I do know where it comes from. I don't agree with it. I think sales is one of the biggest blessings that we have. I sell all the time. I sold this morning my kids to have extra fruit in their smoothie for breakfast. I mean, we're doing this all the time, but I believe what's happened is all of us have a story. All of us have a moment where someone did something manipulative, was coercing us into a yes to a sale when we didn't want to say yes, was pushy. And so that made us get our walls up and feel like, I never want to be that person. So what we've done is broad brush sales to say it can be icky, it doesn't feel good. I don't want to be salesy. All these things come out of our mouths when it's not sales that make that feeling. It's the person, it's the character of that person and how they're approaching selling. Selling is wonderful. It's actually one of the most divine, beautiful exchanges you can participate in. I mean, think about it. You believe in something, whether that's a product or a service, whatever the business holds, it could be a podcast, whatever you believe in, you have belief here. Otherwise, you wouldn't be sharing it. So, what that belief, let it pour out to others without an attachment to outcome. Our job is to educate, share, build excitement, give testimonial, let people know why this could benefit from them or to them. That's our job. And then we get to meet people and let them make an empowered choice for themselves. And if that empowered choice is a no, we get to respect that and say, thank you so much for even listening. I really appreciate it. And continue the conversation because humans want to be in relationships. So we're not going to cut somebody off because they said no and stop talking to them because everything else before that, then all of a sudden feels artificial to that person. You were just talking to me because you wanted me to buy. What if we surprised people and thought, no, I genuinely want to talk to you because I care about relationship. I care about people. And it wasn't about whether you bought or not, it was about connection. And then all of a sudden, people like kind of loosen up and soften towards sales. The other thing is, yes. A lot of people with sales, when they get a yes, they don't know what to do with themselves because they're expecting a no. So when somebody says yes to them, they're like, oh my goodness. So they get all scattered and in the way and they take away the empowerment of that moment because they're making it all about themselves. And so now the person who said yes starts to second guess themselves because they're like, why is she so excited? Why is she so flustered? And again, we interrupt that beautiful divine moment. I mean, when someone says yes to mentorship with me, I literally will pause and sit and give a moment of space because she just said yes to herself. She believed in herself in that moment to say, yes, I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna make this investment of finances and time and space in my mind and my heart. I'm gonna do, I'm not gonna get in the way of that. That is big. That's a big moment. And so for me, sales gets to feel beautiful. And that's why I teach soul led. So I call it soulful sales.

SPEAKER_01 11:52

So is that what you mean whenever you say without attachment to the outcome? Is that process of honoring the yes, honoring the no, and just being present in the moment? Is that, or is there another step that like you're doing, or how are you making that shift in your mind to just be able to let go of this?

SPEAKER_02 12:16

Well, it kind of comes into the conversation of marketing and sales. I believe a lot of people who don't have marketing experience or have not done something like this before, it can feel like just kind of this muddy water of marketing and sales. They don't really know they're two separate things that work closely together. So I believe sales gets to feel easy if your marketing is really supportive to what you're offering. When your marketing is rich and pure and has this frequency to it, and you are self-assured and you're using your voice and you're standing in your authority and you're declaring the why you, why this product or service, sales becomes pretty easy because people know coming into the door whether they want to buy from you or not. So it takes away a lot of the manipulation that we see in the marketplace where industries will use pain point selling. We see that a lot in the health coaching space or that the wellness space of are you tired of your clothes not fitting you? Well, join my program. Or are you someone that never wears a bathing suit? Well, join my program. So what we're doing there is we're manipulating the mind. We're sort of rubbing salt in her wound in order to have her to buy. And I really reject that. As a matter of fact, I stand against it. I think it's wrong. And I don't use the word wrong lightly, but it is a form of manipulation and nobody needs to be reminded of their pain. As a woman, I know what it feels like to put on a bathing suit and go to the beach or the pool. I know what goes through my mind. I lay awake at night thinking about these certain things. You don't need to remind me of that pain in order for me to buy from you. And what happens is if I buy from that place, I'm buying from you thinking you can fix me. Oh, she's gonna fix this for me, or she's the answer for me. Well, that's not empowered because nobody needs to be fixed. Nobody. And everybody has the answer. It's finding somebody who can cast a light onto that. So what it turns into is more of vision casting. I love selling from vision because that speaks to me. Cast a vision of what it can feel like. So instead of telling me, how does it feel to not have your jeans do up after the holidays, instead say, what would it feel like to put on that black dress that's in your closet and just feel so beautiful in your own skin and confident. And you walk into the room and you meet your new best friend and see how I'm now showing her what's possible by working with me, not shaming her into the sale. There's it's a difference. And if we could do more of that, we would actually love selling. People wouldn't be afraid to be sold to because they would know it's genuine and coming from a really beautiful place.

SPEAKER_00 15:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:06

I mean, just that shift makes it feel like so much more in integrity with like where you want to go. And it's funny because I've always heard that advice of paint the picture, but then do the pain points to drive decision making and all of that. And I love that you were just like, no, we're just gonna cast the vision. And I'm speaking to thoughtful, educated women that can make these decisions for themselves without me just like poking at them. And I love that. And I love that that it gets to be that way, and we can come from that place to where it's really authentic to who we are. It feels really good. You can be in integrity, you can not have to feel icky about sales and marketing. And I love how it's so supportive of each other, like it just becomes an easier, not even a sell, it's just an easy yes, and whenever everything is in full alignment. So really beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 16:03

Yeah, yeah, I like that. That's you just cast a vision. So, and that's it. You just did it. It's telling people what's possible and letting them see the pain point selling came from non-marketers teaching marketing. That's really, and I because I'm I've been in marketing for over two decades, it's been a long time. I am a marketer. I went to school for marketing and I've I had a marketing career in corporate and then moved that into my entrepreneurship. So I do consider myself an expert. And what happens and what we see are people who have had some success turn around and then say, I'm gonna teach this without the longevity, without the knowledge and skill honed enough to fully understand the psychology around it and how people really want to feel in your presence and within your company and within your brand. We want to feel empowered. We don't want to feel shamed. We don't want to feel less than. We don't need to put anybody on a pedestal. What we need to do is come together and say, you can offer me this. And hey, I think you could help me with this and this supportive collaboration. That's why my clients have been with me for years. It's because we are in collaboration. We're in this partnership, we're building relationships and we're growing together. I don't have this all figured out. Nobody does. So don't let anybody fool you to tell you they're the person and they've got it all. Nobody has this all figured out. It's just how long are we been on the path or the progression of that path and turning around and letting my hindsight be your foresight. So you can dodge some of these, let's call them for argument's sake, mistakes. I mean, I don't really love that term, but you can dodge some of those things by me giving you the lesson rather than you having to work through the lesson. I can just give that to you. You know what? Here's what I learned. We may not want to do that. Think about this. Oh, okay, perfect. You get to apply the lesson without the pain or without the crunchiness or without the friction. And so that's to me one of the best gifts of mentorship. I mean, this is one of my favorite things to discuss.

SPEAKER_01 17:58

So when people are new into something and they've only been doing it a couple of years and they have not built up like decades-long experience, but it is something that they want to teach. What would you suggest about finding that integrity within what you're teaching and your level of experience without kind of blurring those lines? It kind of goes into what we were talking about as far as like embellishment that we see within this space. And so, how do you make sure that you're not contributing to that as an entrepreneur, like just getting started?

SPEAKER_02 18:32

Well, thank you for bringing that up because this is a really important conversation. And what we're seeing a lot of is embellishment. And what we're seeing a lot of is not actually true. And because I've been around for a long time, this is not, this is not something to dampen anybody's belief. It's just to actually open your eyes a little bit more. I have clients come to me who say, Jen, I'm doing the $100,000 months. I'm like, amazing. What's the next step? Why are we talking? What is that for you? And they say, Well, I've spent $90,000 in ads. This is true.

SPEAKER_01 19:05

That's not $100,000 a month.

SPEAKER_02 19:06

I mean, technically, that's not how you count it. It's not how you count it. No, it's a hundred thousand dollar month, but what they're doing is holding balloons up on social media as though they've got it all figured out. And that's not, I mean, that is not a sustainable business. Okay. The other thing is people will have one $100,000 month, one six-figure month, and then say they're a seven-figure income earner. No, because you had one six-figure month does not equal a million dollars in one year. You're on the way. That's amazing. I applaud it, but you can't take on that and say you you've created that when in fact that's not factual and correct. And so what that means for us is not that we're skeptical, not that we're cynical. It's just that we look at things and really look at someone's character and values, the words they're using, how they teach as the indicator to hire someone versus balloons, hype, all the things. Now, again, I applaud women who are having big success. Thanks for showing us what's possible. We just have to have a little bit of discernment as the audience and community to know we don't know the full story, we don't know the full picture. So that's not going to be my deciding factor. Instead, I'm going to sit in the presence of this person. I'm going to listen to their podcast or read their posts and really get an idea of what they stand for. And then when that aligns, I'll hire. So that was to answer your question of what does someone do when they haven't had success yet? Be careful about what you're sort of comparing yourself to. And also, I really firmly believe, and this is not to sell. This is the honest to God truth. I firmly believe in mentorship. That person that is further down the path, guiding and offering you support. It's not that you need that to be successful, because I really do believe you can Google a lot of things and you can really fumble your way through. It just makes it for a much more easeful ride. And you really do have abundance in a more expedited way when someone's guiding you based on the knowledge they have. So mentorship is key. I still have mentors. I don't believe we get to a point where we don't have mentors because this is life. We're always growing. So what brings up another subject of your question is a lot of people think they're not enough right now. So they get sort of swooned into the embellishment because they think, well, I just started. I only have one or two clients, or I only make $1,000 a month. So who am I to declare expertise? So they uh you'll hear words like, I just. So whenever I hear someone say I just, I interrupt that right away. I just made a thousand dollars last month. I just have two clients. I just have five hundred followers. The word just tells me right away that we're out of our personal power. And we feel like we're not enough. And if you feel that way, people are going to smell that. I mean, they literally smell it. They're like, she doesn't believe. And if you don't believe in yourself, they're not going to believe in you. So if you are on the way to success and maybe you haven't had that solid sort of foundational success yet, remember it goes back to vision casting. People care more about where you're going than where you are today. That builds trust. So if I'm hiring someone, I'm not asking them, so what was your revenue last month? And could you send me your resume? That's, I mean, sure, I want to know their experience and I want to understand that they've had some level of success, but I care far less about that.

SPEAKER_01 22:39

So I know that you've been doing this a long time. And I would like to hear a little bit about how your journey has looked and how you've pivoted to and fro, kind of paint that picture of what it can look like.

SPEAKER_02 22:52

So what I've learned over the 18 years is a trust in ourselves is the secret sauce. So people are looking for an answer, like words. If you do this, then you will be successful. So that could be if you have this type of website, more people will come. SEO, an email list, a million followers. So we think this is these things are secret sauce components to growth as an entrepreneur. And even in your corporate job, it really doesn't matter if it's your career. Let's call it your career. What I know for sure is when we trust ourselves, this is when things expand into such beauty and it takes your breath away. And you can see me maybe getting a little emotional because I have been surprised and delighted through my life. And every time it's feeling imposter syndrome, I just wrote a post about this actually, and have a podcast coming out around it where imposter syndrome to me has become a companion. It no longer hinders me or makes me feel like I'm lacking confidence. Instead, it's a reminder that I'm living out on the skinny branch. I'm stretching, I'm doing new things. So it's actually a partner, and it is the indicator of me doing something new where I feel uncomfortable. So I feel alive in that. That's my design. That's who I am. Because I've realized in business and entrepreneurship, there is really no emergency. There is no life or death. Or maybe it's life, but not death. There's all these things that stack up to give you experience and to teach you where to go next on your path. There are these like marker moments. And if you look at your marker moments, most of them are the ones that hurt a little bit, were sticky, really exposed us, like full of vulnerability. Those moments are those marker moments because they're our greatest teachers. So if we trusted ourselves more, if you look at your history and all you've walked through, we all have a story. We've all had macro and micro traumas. We've all had people who have hurt us. We've all had these quote unquote failures. We've all had these moments where we've lost belief in ourselves. No one is immune to that. But if you look backwards and realize, my goodness, though, every time I dusted myself off and stood up again, you start to see resilience. So that builds trust. Honor your past to build the trust for your future. That'd be my first piece of advice. The second thing is listen to your intuition, which also is trust. For the longest time, I had someone in my executive team who talked me out of my greatest ideas. And I trusted her more than I trusted myself. I had way more experience. She was a support person on my team, but I really valued her and I cared for her. So her voice was very loud in my heart and in my mind. And for the longest time, I didn't do the very things that I'm doing today because someone said you shouldn't. Those naysayers in your life, what I've realized is if I have a vision that other people understand and can see, my vision is not big enough. Nobody should understand it.

SPEAKER_01 26:04

Oh, I just got goosebumps. I was just like, that just spoke to me so much. Keep going.

SPEAKER_02 26:10

Yeah. I mean, if people get it, it's a small vision and it's a starting point. It's okay. It's not bad. But your vision should be where people around you go, huh? And then you get to put on a great show. And that great show is going to be full of twists and turns. It's going to be times where you want to burn the business down. I still have days like that where I want to burn the business down because I'm tired or overwhelmed or something is a hiccup. But you keep going. You keep going because past told me I can work through anything because I've worked through way worse. So I know I can work through this and you keep going, and my vision grows. And people start to just trust me because I follow through. I'm at a point now in my business where all those things that I was told I shouldn't, nobody will understand, that's going to pull you out of your zone of genius, all these little like whispers and little snippets that people tell you that so many people like basically pitch a tent on. Oh, well, they think this. So I should probably follow their advice. I did it. I'm admitting to it here. But when I removed that and thought, what do I really want? I really want a magazine. I've always wanted a magazine. I went to school to start a magazine and I never did it. And for so long, this person on my team was like, it doesn't even make sense. You shouldn't be doing that. That's way too much work. It's way too, you're giving Wade way too much information. You're showing nobody's going to buy your programs. I listen, I finally eradicated that this past year and I launched my magazine and it's gone viral. I have women saying, thank you. I finally have something that fills me up and casts vision and inspires me and expands me. Imagine if I had never done that. It didn't make sense to the world around me. Nobody got it. They're like, you're going to do what? Yeah, I'm going to do it. And it was one of the best things I've ever done for myself, for my spirit, my soul's calling. I know this was a part of what I was supposed to do here. But also for fun and play, we take life way too seriously. Way too seriously. So if someone's new and they're saying, Jen, what about pivots? I'd say, as an entrepreneur, get used to pivots. You're a professional pivoter. I mean, that's what we do. Entrepreneurship is about playfulness and trying new things and not being afraid of if it works or it doesn't, but instead going, what am I going to learn through this? And what if it does work? That what if question is such an interesting thing. Well, what if it doesn't work? Well, what if nobody buys? Well, what if nobody gets me? Well, what if, but what if it works? And that trumps all those other negative what if questions. And so that to me provokes me enough to action.

SPEAKER_01 28:48

I like that. So I'm just gonna poke at that just a little bit. So prior to your magazine and prior to your business coaching and everything that you're doing now, before you've built up that authority and you were just at the vision casting early, early days. Yeah. What did Jen look like then as far as compared to where you are now? I'm just kind of curious about. I mean, I look at your Instagram and I look at your website, and everything is so polished and so professional. And obviously, you've been doing this a long time. So I'm not like comparing myself to you. It's just like I'm admiring the beauty that you have happening on your website and your Instagram. But tell me what it was like for you to get started. And what was that first pivot in that pivotal moment whenever, like, you were like, okay, whatever this first thing is, it's not working now.

SPEAKER_02 29:46

Yeah. And I wish I lost my social media in 2022. I was hacked and tens of thousands of followers were gone in a minute. I never got it back. And the biggest point of grief in all of that was being able to scroll back and see where I came from and realize it didn't always look this way. And so part of me is like excited because I had a fresh start and I got to create it exactly how I am today. But the part of this that nobody else gets to see is where I came from, like that point and that journey forward, because it didn't always look so polished.

SPEAKER_01 30:20

Yeah, I know because I looked all the way back on your social. I went back to the beginning to see like, okay, this is so good and so inspirational, but did it always look like this? And then I noticed, and then I remember you saying that your social media got hacked. And so it was like, that is such an important piece to where I think a lot of people kind of can lose track of comparing the comparison game, period, as far as where you're at now versus you were, where you came from, kind of how it looked whenever it first started, because I know that's not always the case.

SPEAKER_02 30:51

No, and that's why I opened the agency, was because so many people were working with me and comparing my beautiful graphics and the design, which is a love language. I went to school for fashion. I mean, this is one of my love languages. I love to create visually that way because that's just my way of artistic expression. Some people, it's words. Some people, it's conversation, some people, it's drawing. Everybody's different. That's just mine. So I created this agency because I did have a lot of people go, oh my goodness, everything's so polished. Mine doesn't look like that. Well, sometimes we can hire, sometimes we can delegate that in the inter. Those don't have to be huge investments, in order to create something that looks professional, a little more polished, if that's not your zone of genius, so that you're spending your time speaking and connecting and doing those things that only you can do. But I do want to go back to your question around what was Jen like when she started. And it's very crystal clear to me. I remember when I started business coaching, this was back in 2007-ish. And I had two babies. And I remember telling women to come to my home because back then we didn't have Zoom and we didn't have social media. I mean, I sound like a dinosaur, but just that short time ago, we didn't have access to these things. And I actually remember I had a mentor and I had to dial this international phone number and sit with international charges for an hour to hear the person coach and train. Like this is what we did back then. We made those little call them sacrifices in order to grow. So I didn't have Zoom to say, you know, and I didn't want to go somewhere because I had these babies. So I invited women to my home to teach them. And I remember the same women, I did this meeting once a month. The same women would come and I had these binders full of here's all the things I know. And we would sit down the same three faces over and over. And a lot of people would have quit because it was sometimes a little bit defeating when there wasn't the a new person that was interested or a new customer or client. But I've always had this unwavering belief in myself and knowing that as long as I continue to follow through and do the things I said I was gonna do, have to believe on the other side of this, there's a something. It may not look exactly the way I had planned, but I trust in that. I trust that we're always supported, that we're here and we're supported. And all of a sudden, and it wasn't on my timeline, it was on the timeline, three more people, 10 more people. And it got to the point within less than a six-month period, I couldn't fit them in my house anymore. My living room was full. It was standing room only. And then I went to a hotel and I would do these experiences where people could come and sit and listen to me. And I would present over a two-hour evening and teach. And the then it would be standing room only in this massive hotel room. And it just started to grow. But it's because I believe firmly gratitude, being grateful for where you are today. I was grateful every time those three faces showed up. I was like, oh, thank God, somebody's here. There were times that I ate the shrimp ring myself because nobody came. And those moments I practiced. I didn't go, nobody came. I should just quit this. I thought, nope, I booked this time off. I'm gonna practice and hone my own skills. So I would speak out loud, like there was a room full of people. I did things other people aren't willing to do. And so the results I got are different than a lot of people get. But it's our choices, how we lead ourselves and the way we act when it's just a tiny little speck. There's just a little bit of growth. If you can't be grateful for that, you will not be entrusted with a million-dollar business because how can it work that way? It can't. It's when we're like, wow, a thousand dollars. I mean, you're working a corporate career and you have this thing, you're growing on the side. It's a thousand dollars more than you ever would have had if you didn't start. Be grateful for that. That's blessing you. And be hopeful and open to more. But if you can't, if you're just saying, oh, just a thousand dollars, it's not even working. I'm telling you, and you can take this to the bank, it will never grow because you're in the way of it.

SPEAKER_01 35:02

Yeah. That's just that's powerful stuff right there because it is so true. And it's that I often think that we forget if you're a driven, ambitious woman that, you know, has goals and wants to reach things, that it's like something really cool happens or something that you've never done before, and you just kind of check the box and move forward without really pausing to celebrate. I mean, I know that is definitely an area of opportunity for me is to really celebrate those successes and the small things, because I know that's exactly what makes up the long-term success is the things that I'm celebrating now and the things that are pushing me and making me uncomfortable and all of those things. It's learning to celebrate that as well. You know, money, yes, but really just that internal push that I am keeping my word to myself. I'm acting in integrity, I'm chasing after my dreams. But also, I can pause and pat myself on the back every now and then because that's required.

SPEAKER_02 36:09

Well, that's manifestation. You hear all sorts of people talking about manifestation, believe it, and you're gonna have it. That's a small component to actually acquiring all that you desire. And when you can show gratitude for what is, that's when the vortex opens up to things beyond your wildest dreams. But see, in North America, we're spoiled rotten. We can turn our tap on and drink water, but then we complain about the things that are in the water. And there's people that live across the ocean that don't even have that option. And we we somehow dilute the beauty and the privilege of that. And we turn lights on and we just do it. We don't even think about it because these are so much a part of our lives. But I'm telling you that the way to live this rich, full life is to intentionally pay attention. Intentionally pay attention. That's like a most to everything, to everything. The fact that you and I are in each other's world right now, I mean, because of the internet.

SPEAKER_01 37:15

Isn't it wild?

SPEAKER_02 37:16

Isn't it amazing having this kind of I mean, this is what we're doing, Jamie. Like this is dream stuff. This is incredible that we're having this kind of conversation. And then you, out of the generosity of your own heart, freely give this out to your community and anybody who wants to listen. If you think of the social media platforms, I'm freely offering years and years of expertise. Free. But somehow we complicate things and somehow we take the magic out of things because it always has to fit or we have to make sense. And I'm suggesting that everybody listening in, you stop trying to make everything make sense and instead every moment of your life becomes something that can create more beauty. It can also take away beauty. That's a choice. But what if you wanted to constantly create more beauty and magic and pleasure and miracles and to look in the mirror and be like, wow, look what we did today. You're not supposed to be rested all the time. I don't want to go and leave this earth being like, well, I got my sleep and I feel very rested. And I want to go like skid to the end, like the screeching tires, because it's such a short time frame in the scheme of things. And I think we have unnecessary urgency. I think we spend a lot of our energy and time comparing and looking at what other people are doing steals our magic. I think we spend a lot of time thinking, if I have this, then I'll feel the feeling comes first, then you get those things. We have some things backwards. And so maybe this podcast is a reset for people. Maybe they get to like kind of listen to these words and repeat it again to hear it, like really hear it, to reset, get back on track, and to really realize what is the point here. Because if the point is to just hold balloons saying I earned a million dollars, if that's the point.

SPEAKER_01 39:16

I spent 999,000.

SPEAKER_02 39:19

Right. That's the people do that. It's the truth. But it will be such a a letdown. I remember when I crossed that threshold, I too thought something would change. This is it. This is the pinnacle place of a business. Every if you think about it, everybody would love to be able to say this. And the 1% when I got there, what I realized is nothing really changed. And even something the things that did change were just more responsibility, more leadership, more vulnerability. My happiness and joy didn't necessarily change. Sure, I have more things. I I can create more memories. I'm not taking away the beauty that wealth gets to create in our lives. It's just sometimes we're focused on the wrong things that are taking away the opportunity to have and acquire and soak in those things. And so I think we have to hold ourselves accountable to that.

SPEAKER_01 40:17

What's something that you've created over the years that has just blown your mind as far as whether it's some like a trip you've been able to take your family on or some sort of other experience or something that was just has felt beyond reach for a long time that you finally got to accomplish with everything that you're doing?

SPEAKER_02 40:37

A couple things come up. They're materialistic, but the motion and the soul behind it, I want to explain. So I think the what comes to mind first, there's many, but most recent is I completely renovated our house. Oh, that's so fun. It's fun. And what's meaningful about that is it took 10 years. You see, I was a multi-six figure, just on the cusp of that seven-figure business for, oh my gosh, it would have been about 13 years. And that, that, that threshold to cross felt rigorous. But I remember making that income and hardly having any left. You see, I'm the sole provider for my family. So my husband's home full time. We've got four kids. Both my daughters are in competitive horseback riding, both my sons play hockey. These are not inexpensive sports. I also want them to have memories. We love to travel. So these are things that I have been able to, I'm very proud of. But for the longest time, it was rocky. And a lot of it came to my money mindset. And so to pull this back into my most recent renovation, the reason it felt so important to me is number one, I paid cash for everything. That was a big thing. I remember in 2021, I saved $100,000 in a bank account. That was my goal. I had never touched, I accumulated that, but I hadn't held that kind of money. If you see the difference, I'd had multiple. I mean, I was making six, seven, eight hundred thousand, but I hadn't touched a hundred all at once or witnessed it. And I did it. And that was such a pivotal moment for me to understand money and my relationship with money and to be open to receiving and also being open to sharing and the movement of it. And so to do this to the house and create this space that my husband feels really elevated in, that my kids feel so excited to bring their friends over to, that I wake up every morning and go, it still takes my breath away because it looks so different. And to do that, paying cash is a sign of the growth that I have been able to create for myself on many different facets: business, growing the business, continuing money, learning how to hold money and dance with money and be with money and heal some of those deep wounds to create happiness in my home. So to have a marriage that is at the forefront and to tend to him and give him attention and to deeply care for our connection, and then to hold myself to the standard of being an exceptional mom. That's what this whole renovation was about and what it has felt like. So that would be my most recent.

SPEAKER_01 43:22

I like it. I have one question that came out of that I will wrap up with. I'm just curious, that $100,000 in the bank that you had, did you hit your million dollar mark before or after that happened? Oh, that's a good question. After.

SPEAKER_02 43:40

It was after. Yeah, 2021. It was after.

SPEAKER_01 43:42

Do you think that experience helped you kind of hold space for that much money and that much accumulation and gratitude and all of that that comes with it, just being sitting with that?

SPEAKER_02 43:53

100%. My biggest money wound that needed healing was I was told. That money would change me for the worse. That was a narrative and a dialogue that was given to me for as long as I can remember that people with money were evil, or at least turned evil. They became selfish. Money became their world, the love of money. So obviously, the part of it from the church and my upbringing, also part of it from my upbringing with my parents, who really never, they always were, we always were looked after, but there was not always abundance. But we pretended there was like this weird dynamic and sort of facade, let's call it. So it was a very confusing upbringing. And as it I it played out in my early adult years, is as soon as I got it, I spent it because I had no idea what to do with it. I had no idea how to hold it. I had no idea how to save because I had never been shown. Nobody ever had that discussion with me. And I was so afraid of it because I thought if I have more, I'm going to change. And somehow this is going to steal my soul. Like it's going to change me. And I'm not going to love people the way that I believe I was born to love people. So that was a huge shift. And I know people are going to say, well, how did you do it? I'm sure they're listening, going, okay, but how did you heal it? Great question. And first of all, is mentorship for sure. I also have a full-time breath coach. So that's the modality that has worked really well for me in terms of a therapy. I really believe in having that support and doing therapy that really helps us heal and mend the past. And I also read the book You Are a Badass at Making Money, Ben Sincero. And I believe that book kind of fell on my lap at the right time. There was a page, I don't know what page it is, that she says, what was the story that you were being told? And as soon as she asked that question, I heard my parents saying, You're bad with money, you're bad with money, you're bad with money. And I realized that I took that as a truth. And I wasn't bad at money. I was holding a family of four, paying for all the expenses. My husband was able to leave his job and be home to co-parent and parent with me. That's no, those are not indicators of being bad with money. There was just room for improvement. And as soon as I had that, this is an honest to God true story. I read that page. I had this realization. I'd never looked at it like that before. I never had that realization before. I never owned my success in that way before. The very next day I got a phone call and it was a company I was an ambassador for. And they said, Oh my gosh, we're so sorry. We owe you $14,000. It was deposited into my account that day. And that was the catalyst moment for me because I finally understood miracles and magic and manifestation. I understood gratitude. I understood how I was living so much of my life according to what people were telling me who I was versus knowing who I am. Nobody knows me better than me. Nobody knows you better than you. How can we take someone's opinion or their view of us as weight and gold? I mean, I know my experience. And as soon as I flipped it on its head, my whole life, and that literally, that was 2000. That was 2020. I got that phone call. And ever since then, my world has completely drastically changed.

SPEAKER_01 47:20

What a great place to end. Do you want to tell people where they can find more about you, Jen, and your wisdom and the beautiful things you're creating? Sure. Thank you for that.

SPEAKER_02 47:31

I appreciate that generosity. I'm becoming iconic across everything. So if you want to look at the website, it's becoming iconic.co, so dot co. My Instagram is becoming iconic. We also have the agency, becoming iconic agency, and we also have the magazine, which I'm a huge advocate for. It's free. Read the digital copy. It's gorgeous and it's full of business advice, lifestyle advice. It's a true expansion for entrepreneurs. I talk about it at Think Forbes meets that's the vibe. I also have the podcast Becoming Iconic Podcast, which is across all platforms. It's pretty easy to find me, Becoming Iconic. And I'm happy to meet people. I am the person in the DMs. I know a lot of times there's a lot of leaders in the industry who don't, it's not them truly answering. It's me. That will always be me. So if you ever want to meet or ask a question or desire some clarity from what I've discussed today, you can come find me in there.

SPEAKER_01 48:27

That's so generous. Thank you so much, Jen, and thank you for joining me today. I really appreciate your time. Thanks for having me. Thanks again to Jen and all the wisdom shared today. It truly was my pleasure. I have, of course, linked everything up in the show notes. And if you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment and text this to one friend that you know will love it too. Building this podcast means learning from more incredible women like Jen. And if you're on my email list, you know that this show is now going to every other week while I implement this next phase of my business journey. So that's it for now, and I will see you in two weeks. Let's make it count.